THE ESTHER WE NEVER KNEW (Bible Study That Transforms)
SHE WAS AFRAID
WHO WOULDN’T BE?
HE WAS A SORDID KING
HE DID AWAY WITH THE LAST WIFE WHO DISOBEYED
(SOME HISTORIANS SAY VASHTI WAS BANISHED, OTHER SAY SHE WAS BEHEADED)
THE MAN SHE TRUSTED, MORDECAI
TOLD HER TO HIDE HER FAITH
TO GO ALONG WITH EVERYTHING
THE EATING OF UNKOSHER FOODS
THE DENIAL OF HER GOD
THE SEXUAL EXPLOITATION
AND SHE DID
MANY OF US WOULD HAVE TOO.
SHE HAD THE SAME FEARS, THE SAME HEART IDOLS
SHE WAS A WOMAN LIKE US.
BUT THEN, WHEN EVERYTHING CAME CRASHING DOWN
SHE TOOK A TURN
A DRAMATIC LEAP OF FAITH
THE LEAP MANY OF US HAVE TAKEN AT TIMES
AND GOD MET HER.
This transformation of Esther is the side we usually see, but it is important to see her before the transformation. You will see God as the hero,the One who was with her before she was brave, and after. (This is the beauty of our God.)
Though it is true that it helps to know the meaning of some Hebrew words (such as “pleases” the king and “went into” the king) you can figure out what is going on without knowing Hebrew if you read slowly. Though it is helpful to know some cultural practices (eunuchs taught women in the harem how to please the king sexually), you can figure out what is going on without knowing that if you read slowly. Though it is eye-opening to read historians say perhaps 400 to 1,000 women were involved, by simply noting how many provinces from which young virgins were taken (127) you can figure out it was a lot of women. You simply need to read S L O W L Y and be alert.
I think you will be both fascinated and encouraged by this week’s Bible study. My purpose during these three weeks in Esther is to learn to read the Bible so it transforms your life. To review:
- Slow down — don’t assume you know it — you may have been taught wrong
- Stop and contemplate when you are quickened — God is speaking to you
- The Bible is not about us — but about God — every “hero” is flawed, but God is forever faithful
- The genre is important — this is history — and with history you don’t necessarily assume that what believers did was right and use it as a model. It is also important to see that it is satirical — the proud are ridiculed and brought down — including Mordecai.
One of my most helpful commentaries on Esther was from Joyce Baldwin. She explains that though the beauty treatments given to all these girls were akin to marriage preparation (such as still happens in Iran and North India), the sad thing is that most of these young girls were preparing for a life of widowhood. It was an abuse of women — and God wept. Why did He let it happen? That is a mystery. But the Hebrew is very clear that He was with Esther during the abuse. Often He does not sweep our pain away, but He is with us, and He is a Master at turning ashes into beauty.
Was Esther wrong? Many of you have chimed in with your thoughts already. I tend to think she was young, submissive, and simply obeying Mordecai. Most of us would have done the same. I tend to hold Mordecai more responsible — and yet I wonder, what I really would do if I were a parent in such a situation? Would I be able to give my daughter up? Refusal surely would have meant her martyrdom. Parents like the Bonhoeffers and the parents of Sophie Scholl (see the movie on Netflix!) are the exception — encouraging their children to take a stand for the voiceless when to do so seems so likely that martyrdom will happen.
One of the truths hidden in this passage is that God was with Esther. This moves me so. You expect God to be with you when you suffer and are completely innocent, but when you have given in to pressure, you might expect Him to withdraw. But He is with her. And He is with you and with me when we fail Him, when we don’t take the highest road. He loved us first, He loved us when we were yet sinners, and He loves us and is with us when we fail.
I believe God was also very sympathetic with the pressure on Esther. We don’t know how old she was, but we know the pressure was enormous.
If you are a victim of sexual abuse, or love someone who has been. The word “favor” is the Hebrew word “hesed” which is God’s unfailing love. I don’t understand why God allows abuse to happen, but I find comfort in knowing that His unfailing love was with Esther. He saw, He wept, and He eventually turned her ashes into beauty.
This week we will read of her capitulation, and next week her leap of faith. In each, you’ll learn more about reading carefully so you see and are transformed. God is hidden in the book of Esther, but His fingerprints are everywhere. See if you can see them.
Sunday/Monday icebreaker
1. What stands out to you from the above and why?
2. When you read the Bible quickly so that you don’t really connect with God — what heart idols do you think are deceiving you?
3. What have you learned about reading the Bible so it transforms you — is it making a difference? Explain.
In case you missed it, I want to share something Elizabeth wrote at the end of last week:
When I read the Bible in context, with God, instead of Self, as the center, the reference point–the Bible is…indescribable! I am noticing now that even one verse strikes me as it never has before. There is a richness and depth that draws me in for more. And, not sure if this makes sense out-loud–but there is a RELIEF, a peace that comes from taking myself out of the center. When I stop looking for answers for me–and turn to His Word to know more of Him–there is a satisfying calm that comes over me.
Monday-Wednesday Bible Study
4. Read Esther 2:1-4
A. How did the “wise men” advise the king?
B. What qualifications were they looking for in the woman who would be the new Queen?
The word “please” has a strong sexual connotation. In Judges 14:3 Samson tells his parents he wants them to get an unbelieving woman for him for his wife for “she pleases me well.”
C. What satire do you see in this passage?
5. Read Esther 2:5-11
A. When the Jews were taken captive in Babylon, Cyrus released them to go home. Historians believe the godly Jews went home, but others had become quite comfortable in Persia and stayed, becoming very like the Persians. How many generations had Mordecai’s family lived in Persia? (See verse 5)
B. Find evidence in this passage that Mordecai loved Esther.
C. Other details in the book help us know Esther hid her faith for a minimum of seven years — and no one even knew that Mordecai was a Jew in all that time. What fears (and what idols?) might have motivated Mordecai to instruct Esther in this way?
6. Read Esther 2:12-18
A. In this passage there is a phrase that is used four times. It is “to go into.” Find this same phrase in Genesis 16:2; Ruth 4:13, and 1 Samuel 11:4. What does this tell you?
B. According to verse 14, when would she go to the king, when would she return, and where would she go after her night with the king? What would determine her fate, according to this verse? (This verse is loaded — slow down! Find all you can about a woman’s possible fate.)
C. Why do you think Esther capitulated? What might have been her fears (or her idols)?
D. When have you capitulated? Looking back, what were your fears or your idols?
7. It is also absolutely vital to see that God was with Esther — you see it in the word “hesed” which here in Esther is usually translated “favor.”
A. Find it in Esther 2:9; 2:15, and 2:17.
B. What does it mean to you that God was with her? Think of your failings, right now.
8. It is also important to read the Bible according to genre. Esther is a historical book. What you see God’s people doing isn’t necessarily a commendation — it is just a recording of what they did. We cannot endorse polygamy because God’s people practiced it, because God’s didactic teachings clearly opposed polygamy. For example, if you ignore genre, you might come up with the conclusion that what Esther and Mordecai did was right because they were eventually used to rescue God’s people. See if you can refute this from scriptures that are not a recording of history but are didactic (commands from God, teaching Scriptures).
9. Here is a controversial question — and believers who love the Lord come down on both sides. How do you think God feels about smuggling Bibles or hiding Jews during the holocaust since it involves lying? Is this in the same category as what Mordecai and Esther did? Why or why not? What is your case scripturally?
Thursday-Friday: Sermon
If you did not listen to last week’s free sermon — please do now. (LINK)
If you did, and want to go on, listen to this sermon. (LINK)
10. Share your notes on the message
Saturday
11. What is your take-a-way and why?
1. What stands out to you from the above and why?
I never got to my take away from last week, reading this week’s opening reinforced what I was feeling ought to have been my take away from last week, and that is, how important it is to keep focus on God rather than men. It seems so easy and natural to place others on a pedestal if we think they live an exemplary life, perhaps leading us to feel inferior, or the other side of the coin, to feel superior to those whose sins are obvious & glaring.
But even the best saint we know is a sinner, and the worst sinner can be forgiven if he repents, Christ is able to redeem him and make him stand.
That any of us will be able to stand is a gift of love from our Father.
I wonder what God might accomplish if instead of trying to figure out everyone’s motives, I would turn those energies into prayer for those people instead.
Great thoughts Chris! I particularly like your last sentence. How freeing to be unconcerned about the motives of others.
I’m still going to encourage you to write a book one day Chris–this is so rich “I wonder what God might accomplish if instead of trying to figure out everyone’s motives, I would turn those energies into prayer for those people instead.”
Chris great comments. To know that “even the best saint we know is still a sinner” so no one is exempt from sin except the one and only true God.
Chris,
Your post really resonates with me. I can easily find myself doing what you describe here – either feeling inferior or superior, playing that comparison game.
“That any of us will be able to stand is a gift of love from our Father”. This reminded me of this verse:
“To Him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy – to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.” (Jude 1:24-25)
Amen!
He is able to keep us from falling, to present us without fault and with great joy before His glorious presence! To Him be glory majesty power & authority!
One day that will be us girls!
Like!
1. What stands out to you from the above and why?
I loved this paragraph “You expect God to be with you when you suffer and are completely innocent, but when you have given in to pressure, you might expect Him to withdraw. … He is with you and with me when we fail Him, when we don’t take the highest road. He loved us first, He loved us when we were yet sinners, and He loves us and is with us when we fail.”
I do tend to think He has turned His head away in disappointment when I have failed Him. The reminder that He loved first—not based on my performance, is powerful to me.
2. When you read the Bible quickly so that you don’t really connect with God — what heart idols do you think are deceiving you?
Comfort—not wanting to have my feathers ruffled or to be challenged with a particular sin. Jesus asks the sick man, ‘Do you want to be healed’—I do think of that, as Paige Brown mentioned—do I really want what it inevitably takes to be transformed? The path before the beauty is revealed can be hard to look at.
I also think there can be an idol of control/performance—just wanting to plow through study so I can get to what else is on the agenda for the day. Believing the lie that my agenda is somehow what is most important.
Believing the lie that my agenda is somehow what is most important. Oh. So my heart so often.
What an absolutely despicable culture! I wondered about the fact that the eunuchs taught the women. I didn’t understand. I think I get it now. Horrible and twisted!
I don’t know how God’s heart is not torn into a million pieces.
So glad you are a nurse. I would want that kind of heart if I were sick.
1. What stands out to you from the above and why?That God was with her at all times even when she did not stand up for what is right but went along. I still struggle not to have answers as to why…But I have to discipline my heart and mind to just trust in His goodness.
2. When you read the Bible quickly so that you don’t really connect with God — what heart idols do you think are deceiving you?
Too busy…Comfort
Already know…Pride
3. What have you learned about reading the Bible so it transforms you — is it making a difference? Explain.
That it is ok sometimes to really just hang on a verse. A single verse can sometimes be so illuminated and chewed on it can change your heart! Instead of feeling pressure to consume we need to just learn to slowly take it in and enjoy. It helps me so!!! Though I am in so much other stuff, I am let off the hook because I am listening to what He wants me to really hang onto in my readings.
Love love this: That it is ok to really just hang on a verse… It helps me so!
Isn’t it interesting how many of us are “accomplishment oriented” yet working at cross-purposes with God!
Sorry, I missed most of last week. I tried to keep up with the comments but ended up just skimming. I am back. No more vacation or conferences.
I love what Elizabeth said about the richness of reading in context. I am trying to read through the Bible in a year and sometimes my pride is uppermost urging me to just finish my assigned readings and I forget to listen in context to what God is teaching me. So many times I am my own worst enemy.
This is a refrain from our group!
What stands out to you from the above and why? While reading this I was reminded how God’s love is so constant. I often find myself deceived into feeling God’s love is altered by my behavior. The fact is nothing good I do will cause God to love me more and nothing bad I do will cause his love to lesson. His love is unfaltering, steady, sure. By humanizing God’s love, making attempts to define it – we can be blocked from seeing and experiencing the depth and width of his mercy and grace.
1. What stands out to you from the above and why? God is the hero. He was with Esther before she was brave and He was with her after. Every hero is flawed but God is forever faithful. He is with us when we fail Him. Oh, how precious this is to me. It is the truth that transforms me. It is the love that makes me into His image. The reason it stands out is that my weakness and failure is sometimes all I can see. It is deeply comforting to me to know that He loves me whether I am weak or whether I am brave. When I look at how He was with Esther when she took her leap of faith I know that He will be with me in mine.
2. The idol that causes me to read quickly must be approval. It is works righteousness. If I read through the Bible on schedule, He will approve of me. I will gain His favor over those who do not. The truth is my righteousness is revolting to Him. He has given me His righteousness so that I can be with Him. That is what He wants, me with Him, sharing our hearts as lovers would.
3. I think I have always seen the rules when I read the Bible. I did not see the love for me. It is there but why I did not let it change me, I do not know.
It is making a tremendous difference. For the first time in my life I am facing my fears and gaining victory over them. It is a process because they come back. They are my default mode that I go to subconsciously. When I see it, I speak truth to my soul and she calms.
It is so true (I don’t know if it was Luther or Calvin) who said the default mode of the human heart is works righteousness. How alert we must be to this.
And Ann — how I am overjoyed to see His love reassuring You. You don’t realize what a gem you are. But, that’s not why He loves you. :-)
Why He loves me is a complete and delicious MYSTERY! Thanks Dee. You are the best!
Sunday/Monday icebreaker
1. What stands out to you from the above and why? – I have to say this section “You expect God to be with you when you suffer and are completely innocent, but when you have given in to pressure, you might expect Him to withdraw. But He is with her. And He is with you and with me when we fail Him, when we don’t take the highest road. He loved us first, He loved us when we were yet sinners, and He loves us and is with us when we fail.” this is so encouraging to me considering that I am a follower of Jesus who sins even though I try so hard to do what I know pleased Him. I think of myself as a parent and how just last weekend I was so made at my 17 year old for not calling to let me know where he was still at and finally reaching him at 10:00pm. As he said to me the next morning (after him finally getting home at 1:30 from Great America). I worry too much, even though I’m a mom and that is what I do. I told him all he had to do was call me and update me where he was at. I wonder if God feels the same, when we don’t call or check in. I know He knows all and knows where we are at, but I’m sitting here typing this and feel bad now when I don’t make an effort to reach Him. This is something I will now have to put into my life so He knows where I’m at.
2. When you read the Bible quickly so that you don’t really connect with God — what heart idols do you think are deceiving you? – for me it would be the busy-ness of life. Too many things to do that I just read to check the box so to speak. Just to say I got it done but what’s the point if I get nothing out of it, if I don’t learn what God is trying to tell me or teach me. My heart is really longing to be closer to the Lord, but my mind idols are winning at this time. I have to just say “no” to my mind idols and do what my heart is saying and longing for.
3. What have you learned about reading the Bible so it transforms you — is it making a difference? Explain. – When I read the bible slowly enough to really understand and comprehend what it is saying there’s a few things for sure that I get. First it helps me to know what God has truly done for me and those before me and what he has promised to continue to do for me. It helps me to know when those in “authority” are misleading me in what they teach. It helps me most importantly I think to have a closer more intament relationship with Him.
Julie — I am so amazed at how every single one of us is saying the same thing. We all have the same tendency to check off and not slow down…Wow. Thanks for articulating it.
Looking forward to this (and will try to read S L O W L Y !!!). I’ll be gone at the end of the week again, but I suppose that getting through some of this slowly is better than finishing all of it in a couple hours :)
Just wondering… Did David and Solomon use similar methods to get their concubines? Being one of the “good guys”isn’t determined by number of wives and concubines, but by God’s work in their hearts.
Good question, Renee. I was thinking this morning and thanking God for your mind that asks such good questions.
Xerxes was a pagan — I hope the eunuchs didn’t train David and Solomon’s concubines — but who knows. It does seem that David felt free to “take,” as he did with Bathsheba, but then God came to him and he repented. My understanding is that the large harems were political more than sexual, for marrying the daughter of a powerful man from another country increased clout. Obviously it grieved God.
Other people have insights on this?
Yes — read S L O W L Y :-)
1. What stands out to you from the above and why?
This stood out yesterday but I didn’t have time to post. :) That God is with us even when we give in to pressure and fail just like He was with Esther. We see God’s fingerprints all over Esther if we slow down and look-wow..
On Dee’s f.b. page she asked if anyone had watched a movie called “Blue Like Jazz”-she read the book and wanted to know if the movie got the point. I haven’t read the book, but she sparked my curiosity and I watched the movie Saturday. There were some strange parts and some cussing, but the first time I watched it I loved it overall and loved the ending. After watching it the second time with my husband I saw God’s fingerprints throughout-His sovereignty and how he was with the main character even though he was pressured and gave in-even though he ran after his approval idol and tried to run from God. It was almost like a modern day prodigal son movie-but not made the way most Christian films are made. I think it is a secular movie but regardless I LOVED it.
2. When you read the Bible quickly so that you don’t really connect with God — what heart idols do you think are deceiving you?
I think it is Approval because we want to be able to say we did our study when it comes time to meet again, or because we think God will approve of us if we don’t fail on our commitment to get it done. Or Control because we checked off something on our list-but it is approval even then because we forget the Gospel and feel there is something we must do to gain His approval of us.
3. What have you learned about reading the Bible so it transforms you — is it making a difference? Explain.
What has transformed me is how we often focus on the hero, or person of a book in scripture rather than God. When I look at passages now and read them slowly He becomes bigger-I look for the Gospel and I look for His hand, and usually these are the times He quickens me-when He does I stop even if it means I won’t get my study done-Stopping and listening to Him has SO IMPACTED ME. Meditating on who He is or seeing his fingerprints when it seems he is absent is really changing my life too. Keller said there are only a few times he comes in big obvious ways in scripture, but most times he moves in the mundane. That impacted me, so I am making more of an effort to slow down and see Him. I can’t explain it other than saying He becomes bigger and I become less-I am blown over by Him and less concerned about myself.
Thanks so Rebecca. Every single person has said the same thing. Wow. (Answer to 2)
And now i’m going to rent Blue Like Jazz. I loved the book. Christian book and well written.
Oh, I didn’t know it was a Christian book. I can just imagine how well written the book is. My husband and I said we could see some of our friends switching it off in the beginning-but they are going to miss the point if they do. My husband said, “now this is reality-unlike most Christian movies.” He thought the message was wonderful! It will be interesting to see if you like it-usually the movies never match up to the books.
We let our oldest son watch it with us-He is around unbelievers daily and going into high school next year-that might not be for every parent to do because of the language and other things in it, but he said he was struggling with his faith and this movie cleared up some things for him-changed his mind about his doubts about God. It is one of those movies that can strike up great discussions afterward.
I’m going to have to look for both the movie and the book. Thanks Ladies!
I remember hearing the author interviewed on the radio, he was compelling, maybe I will order that book. I have so many books already to read, I will have time to catch up on my during the winter!
I read this book quite a while ago. It was ground breaking for me. It was so honest. I gave it to my brother-in-law who has been Bible Belt whipped and he loved it too. I did not know it had been made into a movie but now it is in my queue. Netflix has it classified as a comedy. Is that so? I don’t remember that about the book.
Sorry, that wasn’t a very nice thing to say about the Bible Belt. It’s just that he has been so beat up by legalism. Now his default is panic if he feels judged and found wanting.
I downloaded Blue Like Jazz to my EReader and started it already while working out at the Y. Will have to look for the movie now.
Julie, I met with a friend for lunch yesterday and she read it-She loves the author and she said the book was life changing. I told her some things that were in the movie-how they portrayed some of the people in college, and she said a lot of that wasn’t in the book. She said it sounds like they took a bit of liberty in the movie in how they portrayed the kids in college. Also she saw the movie was listed under comedy and felt the book really wasn’t a comedy. I think they portrayed the point of the book in the movie, but I could be wrong since I haven’t read the book! :) I just really loved the movie’s message. Especially at the end and I loved how they weaved that girl in who really lived out the Gospel into his life.
My husband loved it too–I’ve been wanting to get the movie but it’s been out–guess I should read first ;)
oooh I like this little countdown timer before edit time is up! cool!
Rebecca you are right, I’m not too far into the book but there definitely are some “ouch” moments already.
1. What stands out to you from the above and why?
To read slowly. I often have trouble understanding what the Bible is telling me. It seems written in a way that eludes my brain. As I have often said, poetry isn’t my “thing.” I know this isn’t poetry, but I read some passages and it’s a story. I will try my best to read it For example, i would never have guessed Esther was a satire!slowly, but inside I really don’t think it will help me.
2. When you read the Bible quickly so that you don’t really connect with God — what heart idols do you think are deceiving you?
Probably control – how will slowing down help me to understand? It will take time; time I don’t have or time I would like to be spending doing something else (ouch, the truth hurts).
3. What have you learned about reading the Bible so it transforms you — is it making a difference? Explain.
I have tried to really understand what I am reading. I think it is a mystery to figure out. I know there are important words in the Bible that I personally need to discern. I want to understand them so I am ready to meet the Lord on His level.
Sorry, my editing in the last sentence on the first question messed up. It should read, “I will try my best to read it slowly, but inside I’m really not sure it will help me.”
Laura I encourage you to pray before you begin your study beleiving that God longs to meet you there in His word, and that He has something to share with you, He loves you and wants you to come to Him.
1. What stands out to you from the above and why?
“He is with you and with me when we fail Him, when we don’t take the highest road. He loved us first, He loved us when we were yet sinners, and He loves us and is with us when we fail. I believe God was also very sympathetic with the pressure on Esther. We don’t know how old she was, but we know the pressure was enormous.”
I studied Esther last winter with my Bible study group. It was very helpful to look at context and culture. I picture Esther as a scared Jewish girl who was basically kidnapped and taken to the king’s palace against her will. Yet it is wonderful to see how God helped her even in the midst of her captivity.”
One example is Esther 2:9 where it mentions how Esther received special favor from the eunuch in charge. “9 And the young woman pleased him and won his favor. And he quickly provided her with her cosmetics and her portion of food, and with seven chosen young women from the king’s palace, and advanced her and her young women to the best place in the harem.”
And 2: 15 when it says how she had won favor by all around her. That is really amazing when you think about where she was, a harem most likely prone to jealousies and cat fights. “15 When the turn came for Esther the daughter of Abihail the uncle of Mordecai, who had taken her as his own daughter, to go in to the king, she asked for nothing except what Hegai the king’s eunuch, who had charge of the women, advised. Now Esther was winning favor in the eyes of all who saw her.”
Diane, your last paragraph stands out to me because of something the Lord showed me this morning. It was 2 Cor 9:8. The jist of it for me was that God’s blessings are not just because He loves but also so that I can turn around and use them in ministry. It’s an easy concept but it really came home to me this morning because sometime I feel guilty for having so much when others have little. Then sometimes I feel guilty because I have nothing to offer! Insanity!
Neat how God enabled Esther to use her blessings to bless and even deliver her people.
I love what Elizabeth wrote last week because it is so true. When we take “self” out and make God the reference point there is a relief.
I think the relief is not having to prove myself to others. What do I have to prove? God never has to prove Himself. He just is!
This lesson is transforming!
I see Esther as a representation of anyone who gets caught up in the culture around them.
She shows me I can find my way back through God and Him only.
She shows me I can find my way back through God and Him only.
Perfect.
as i sat down to this study a friend (22) called me with an asthma attack, no health insurance, wanting me to “fix” it…. two little girls walked into my back door that i forgot that i was watching today and Ellie has been sick all weekend with a high fever and mouth sores, I wonder who does not want me to do this study?!?!?!
as I read this story what I pray that those who have been abused, and i have many in my life, can see is that GOD CAN STILL USE THEM. I feel like so many of my friends feel like damaged goods, the guilt that they put on themselves is so heavy. I pray that when they read this they see that esther was a young VICTOM. I cringe when I hear people say “well she should have stood up for herself, it would have been better to die” she was a young girl doing what she was told to do!!!! and had she “stood up” to the authority of the day ALL Jews would have died.
I have a friend who “submitted” to a rape, did not fight back, if she had she would have most likely died. she feels so guilty for not fighting! I thank God she did not. My point is that she did what she needed to do to live another day. I believe this is what Esther did. And we have to remember that this is a culture that prized submission in woman above all other things. she did not live in a post “womans rights” world. I doubt the thought of fighting back
gotta go, my friend just called and cant breath…pray for jackie
she is not at my house doing a breathing treatment….is stable. thanks for your prayers!
So glad you are with this study — you minister to so many who have been abused. May God use you Cindy to breathe life and love into them. Proud of you!
this made me cry…..dont remember the last time someone told me they were proud of me….that was fresh water for my parched soul, thank you Dee, for everything!
OH how it saddens me so to see the only real time I really slow down are when I am afflicted with pain…Grrr. When will I learn to do it without the discipline of pain. Struggling now with back and legs…I may have thrown it out doing too much Saturday accomp. stress. Or it could be lyme related for I was on antibiotics again but finished them now…We will see. But it does slow me down and with most people I tend to be kinder too. Maybe it is because I am at such a vulnerable spot? Interesting observation to me.
Also an update on the visit Saturday…We found out that the brother in state custody had his last visit that day. They are terminating parental rights. He will be adoptable. THe mom spoke to me in denial of this happening still saying they needed to get on the ball with doing stuff for him but in our case she has lots of time…That makes it clear to me she really has no intention of working the plan. So sad to me. So we have been advised to proceed with adoption petition by biological grandparent, and state workers.This is so hard!! Meeting with an adoption attorney soon to find out all the legal details. I do not want it to be an ugly battle esp for the sake of the boys who will understand but I want stability for them. The older boy with my friend crys out to God every night for his parents. He cannot understand why…Doesnt know they are not trying…So hard and sad. I trust God to redeem it all though however it goes. We are in serious prayer mode this week. Would love for you to join me.
Love you all!
I will pray for all involved Angela, it is hard to comprehend a mother giving up her children.
It is good to know that a friend of yours has his brother, at least the boys won’t lose contact with one another completely.
Praying Angela that Gods plan wins out for you and your family and all involved.
Identified with your opening sentence, Angela, and your …Grrr!
Father, I do ask that You would bring healing into this boy’s life — I believe it is for his good, but he feels the pain of rejection. Help him turn to You, the One who will never forsake him.
In Your name I pray
Praying too, Angela
Angela, joining these prayers for you and all involved. Praying His peace, protection, healing especially for this little one. Also praying for your back and that the latest antibiotic round has helped.
Praying too — for your back and legs, for your little guy, for his brother who is confused and grieving, for you as you go through the process of adoption, for the mother who is blind to herself and her children and God’s love for her. Oh my, there is so much pain in the world.
A. How did the “wise men” advise the king
vs 2 ” let the beautiful young virgins be sought for the king”
B. Find evidence in this passage that Mordecai loved Esther
vs 7 ” when her father & mother died, Mordecai took her as his own daughter”
What satire do you see here?
The only satire I see is the kings ego is so massive and yet fragile.
2. When you read the Bible quickly so that you don’t really connect with God — what heart idols do you think are deceiving you?
I think there are so many they may be innumerable. The little foxes of distraction about the REAL things I need to do for the day, The love of money, my thoughts drifting to financial concerns, the approval of people, my thoughts fleeing to mistakes of the previous day and what others thought about them, the drive to do my job perfectly, or that I should hurry up with this quiet time and get some exercise because others will like me better if I am thinner. Control idol, that I need to check all these things off my list or some evil thing will happen to me, or if I can’t study this passage PERFECTLY, I might as well hurry through or skip it altogether
Your honesty helps us see ourselves honestly.
Chris–you got me with this one “or if I can’t study this passage PERFECTLY, I might as well hurry through or skip it altogether”–I feel that a lot lately. A voice in my mind that says I won’t be able to “get it”–or even that if I do I won’t remember it (my memory is terrible!)
4. Read Esther 2:1-4
A. How did the “wise men” advise the king? to bring young virgins…Wonder why they were only young men seems a lack of wisdom, probably surrounded himself with those who would say what he wanted to hear. I wonder if they got any benefit of the harem (the second one that is). This is perversion at its worse. Advising him to forever ruin young virgins lives for the sake of one king needed one queen…Very sad.
B. What qualifications were they looking for in the woman who would be the new Queen?young, beautiful, virgin…then cosmetics given, then who pleases the king.
Here is a thought I had, seriously how many women can a man sleep with without getting tired of this! How many did he go through…how in the world did it not just tire him from sex. He is like a perpetrator of the worst kind.
The word “please” has a strong sexual connotation. In Judges 14:3 Samson tells his parents he wants them to get an unbelieving woman for him for his wife for “she pleases me well.”
C. What satire do you see in this passage?Well it is ridiculous because it is not the way to chose a life partner for sure! We know all the consequences emotionally, physically, spiritually, today.
3. What have you learned about reading the Bible so it transforms you — is it making a difference? Explain.
That God wants His word to impart understanding about Himself, His purposes & character. I used to pray sometimes before I began my study that the Spirit would illumine me to what He wanted me to see, I do want to see what He wants me to see.
I have been thinking a lot about teaching I heard on John 6, Jesus teaching that He is the Bread of Life, about how we wish we could just see our idolatry, repent and be finished with it, but we need to come to Jesus for bread daily, the teaching compared the Israelites in the wilderness, how they had to gather the manna daily, they couldn’t save it up, and how we need Jesus in that same ongoing way.
Seeing His love in the story draws me, it causes me to look for Him all around me, even in the gift of everyday things like the beauty of nature, the wonder of food, the affection of my dog, the love of my husband, the laughter of my granddaughter, sleep at the end of a day of working hard.
I see too the pain in people’s lives, people tell me their stories, I think they tell me just because I am willing to listen. I want to be less focused on myself (my weight, my financial status, my lack of education, my understanding and abilities) so that I can be the hands and feet Jesus to these people He places in my path.
Read this from Spurgeon today. He mentions Esther.
…let us seek the same desires after our Lord as those which glowed in the heart of the elect spouse. See how she leaps at once to Him; there are no prefatory words; she does not even mention His name; she is in the heart of her theme at once, for she speaks of Him who was the only Him in the world to her. How bold is her love! it was much condescension which permitted the weeping penitent to anoint His feet with spikenard-it was rich love which allowed the gentle Mary to sit at His feet and learn of Him-but here, love, strong, fervent love, aspires to higher tokens of regard, and closer signs of fellowship. Esther trembled in the presence of Ahasuerus, but the spouse in joyful liberty of perfect love knows no fear. If we have received the same free spirit, we also may ask the like. By kisses we suppose to be intended those varied manifestations of affection by which the believer is made to enjoy the love of Jesus. The kiss of reconciliation we enjoyed at our conversion, and it was sweet as honey dropping from the comb. The kiss of acceptance is still warm on our brow, as we know that He hath accepted our persons and our works through rich grace. The kiss of daily, present communion, is that which we pant after to be repeated day after day, till it is changed into the kiss of reception, which removes the soul from earth, and the kiss of consummation which fills it with the joy of heaven. Faith is our walk, but fellowship sensibly felt is our rest. Faith is the road, but communion with Jesus is the well from which the pilgrim drinks. O lover of our souls, be not strange to us; let the lips of Thy blessing meet the lips of our asking; let the lips of Thy fulness touch the lips of our need, and straightway the kiss will be effected. ~Spurgeon
I especially love the last line.
Thanks for this Kim, the contrast between Esthers fear of being killed for coming before her husband, and the boldness and assurance we have coming before a Holy God because of Christ’s love for us is striking
love this from Spurgeon, Kim–”but the spouse in joyful liberty of perfect love knows no fear”
C. What satire do you see in this passage? The first thing that I noticed was even though Xerxes was regretting taking his wisemens’ advise about Vashti, he turns to them again for advise on what to do about his situation.
“Like a dog that returns to its vomit is a fool who repeats his folly.” Proverbs 26:11
David, thank you for the improvements to the comment posting!
I LOVE the spell check!
And thanks for whatever you did to get the comments to come through to my email again, I appreciate that so much!
Now if you could just hook us up with a Like button for comments….. : )
Ladies, I have a prayer request. I have a job interview on Wednesday and because of connections I know that it will be offered to me. I have worked for my current employer for 26 years and do not want to start somewhere new, but I had told God if you want me to switch jobs, you’re going to have to throw one in my lap because I am not going to actively seek one. I was called by my sister’s former supervisor and offered a position. I have to admit that I am on the verge of an anxiety attack over this. I don’t want to shut the door on God’s leading, but I really, really, really don’t want to leave my friend which I know sounds stupid, but she has been the only friend that I’ve had in my adulthood and I don’t want to see it become one of those “even if it’s been years since we talked” kind of things. I have enough of that in my life.
I still have a lot of work ahead of me in the area of depression and anxiety and I don’t want to foolishly jump into something new. Pray for wisdom and PEACE with God’s decision in this matter. He knows I don’t want to leave.
Praying you have His wsdom
Dawn,
I am praying for you. This sounds like a really hard decision, and I will pray that the Lord will give you His guidance and direction as you seek it from Him. Praying for His peace to surround you.
Praying Dawn:)
praying for you!
Dawn will be praying that you feel Gods tugging at your heart so you know this is HIS will.
Hard decision, however it seems as if God is answering your prayer, Dawn. Why did you pray for a new job in the first place? I must have missed a post. I will pray for you.
Father — if this is of You, and it has some evidence it may be, please give Dawn peace that overcomes her anxiety, favor in the interview, and trust that You will help her maintain her friendship.
In Jesus Name
Oh Dawn, this does sound like a big decision–praying for wisdom and peace.
Praying as well, Dawn. May God make it clear what you are to do. I can understand your concern about losing your friend, but with conscious effort you can maintain the friendship even if you change jobs. Trust in the Lord. He is in control. You do not have to solve this puzzle yourself.
Praying Dawn. One thing I have learned about decisions like this is that it is good not to hurry.
Dawn MS-praying for you. I will be sure to pray for you tomorrow too. Let us know how it goes!
1. What stands out to you from the above and why?
“You expect God to be with you when you suffer and are completely innocent, but when you have given in to pressure, you might expect Him to withdraw. But He is with her. And He is with you and with me when we fail Him, when we don’t take the highest road. He loved us first, He loved us when we were yet sinners, and He loves us and is with us when we fail.”
This is awesome truth, and it is like a balm and a salve to speak to my soul when my emotions are screaming otherwise – look what you’ve done, God is mad at you, He has withdrawn from you. It is true, I expect Him to withdraw, it feels like He withdraws from me when I fail.
This is so comforting to know that His character is like this.
Also, that Esther was a “woman like us” – with the same fears and heart idols. When we see how God worked in her life, we can know He can work in our lives in the same way.
So glad you see this, Susan. I pray it will permeate your soul.
Love your thoughts here, Susan. And Amen to Dee’s prayer, “I pray it will permeate your soul.” I too understand as I too tend to get really “down” on myself when I fail in some way. Isn’t it great that God never leaves us or forsakes us.
Love the new comment box and spellcheck…I need it! Thanks David!
Dee!!!! you are my new best friend! spell check, really!! thank you thank you thank you:-)
That was David — and in response to a request from one of our bloggers!
that should have been me:-0 but was not!!! :-)
4. Read Esther 2:1-4
A. How did the “wise men” advise the king? – that a decree be made so that all women would know that what Queen Vashti had done was wrong and that they are ordered to obey whatever their husband said.
B. What qualifications were they looking for in the woman who would be the new Queen? – She had to be a beautiful young virgin woman.
The word “please” has a strong sexual connotation. In Judges 14:3 Samson tells his parents he wants them to get an unbelieving woman for him for his wife for “she pleases me well.”
C. What satire do you see in this passage? – when I read Judges 14:3 I hear from both the parents and Samson a temper tantrum going on. Gimme gimme gimme, I don’t care what you or anyone else says, I want her and I want her now daddy!
5. Read Esther 2:5-11
A. When the Jews were taken captive in Babylon, Cyrus released them to go home. Historians believe the godly Jews went home, but others had become quite comfortable in Persia and stayed, becoming very like the Persians. How many generations had Mordecai’s family lived in Persia? (See verse 5) – There had been 3 generations from Mordecai’s family.
B. Find evidence in this passage that Mordecai loved Esther. – In verse 7 he adopted her because her parents had died and in verse 10 even though he wanted Esther to lie about her ethnic background I can see some love there because he thought he was protecting her from being killed, and in verse 11 he kept going by the harem’s courtyard to check up on her and see if she was ok.
C. Other details in the book help us know Esther hid her faith for a minimum of seven years — and no one even knew that Mordecai was a Jew in all that time. What fears (and what idols?) might have motivated Mordecai to instruct Esther in this way? – I think fear, shame, embarrassment of being a Jew in that time would be some that would make Mordecai want to hide his ethnicity and that would make Esther lie.
Love your paraphrase of Samson!
1. SLOWLY if I get nothing else out of this week I will got SLOWLY. it is so hard to move slowly in this life, there are so many needs and wants all around me, its SO hard to SLOW down.
2.When I read fast I am temped to think “I already know this” my pride idol comes out. I also read it as a story and not as something to change me, this is more true with the OT then the new. I love Galatian, Ephesians, Philippians because they are short and to the point;-) “do not complain, do not worry, pray about everything, consider it pure joy by brothers when you face trials of many kinds…..I like readers digest:-)
3. I have learned that even the stories that are not straight forward have lots of gold to dig out if you take the time to sift it out.
1. What stands out to you from the above and why?
S L O W L Y – because I approach much of life FASTLY (or else crash and do nothing)
127 provinces — poor girls didn’t even speak the same language
2. When you read the Bible quickly so that you don’t really connect with God — what heart idols do you think are deceiving you?
Control, I think — being in control of what I learn and how I learn it
3. What have you learned about reading the Bible so it transforms you — is it making a difference? Explain.
One thing I am learning is the importance of reading the Bible prayerfully. Yes, God is softening my heart to be more receptive to His word.
Oops… Just came on here to check the blog & realized that I didn’t hit submit earlier today (I’m SLOW in the wrong areas!)
4. Read Esther 2:1-4
A. How did the “wise men” advise the king?
My Bible says it was his “attendants” that advised him according to what to do. They said to “interview” young women for the job of Queen. She should be a virgin. They would search through every province to find her. He appointed people to be the ones to search for these beautiful women. The women would be given beauty treatments. I wonder what the treatments really were? How to fix your hair? How to put-on make up? Shaving legs?! The king would then decide who pleased him and she would become Queen.
B. What qualifications were they looking for in the woman who would be the new Queen?
She must be beautiful, a virgin, and come from his realm.
C. What satire do you see in this passage?
I suppose it comes in the first few lines where the king “remembers vashti” and what she had done. It’s as if he gets sidetracked with the issue of telling all the husbands of the land to take control of their wives (in the verses prior) and forgets why he was doing it!
5. Read Esther 2:5-11
A. When the Jews were taken captive in Babylon, Cyrus released them to go home. Historians believe the godly Jews went home, but others had become quite comfortable in Persia and stayed, becoming very like the Persians. How many generations had Mordecai’s family lived in Persia? (See verse 5)3? I was wondering the time frame because it says in the next verse he was carried away..but maybe it refers instead to the generations listed. That was confusing. Yet if I understood the time frame of Ester vs the captivity it would be clear.
B. Find evidence in this passage that Mordecai loved Esther.He not only took her in but did as his own daughter. He checked on how she was doing everyday.
C. Other details in the book help us know Esther hid her faith for a minimum of seven years — and no one even knew that Mordecai was a Jew in all that time. What fears (and what idols?) might have motivated Mordecai to instruct Esther in this way? That they would be treated differently or as less for being different and not like the culture. But for Esther even more so being in this hard situation he could not protect her from being taken away but maybe he could protect her in this way promoting she lie???He may have felt guilty and needed control.
4. Read Esther 2:1-4
A. How did the “wise men” advise the king?
I stopped on verse one..”later when his anger subsided”-was that still because of Vashti? I wonder-it just seems like he is hurt because his pride has been shaken-like a little child who couldn’t get what he wanted to feed his idol.
I noticed that he “remembered” Vashti. Perhaps he felt a bit of regret now that she is gone? That isn’t there so I don’t want to insert something but the King is entrenched in idolatry and maybe he loved Vashti, of course in a self-serving sense-and he needs that hole filled again- when our idols are challenged they cry out.
The “Wise men” didn’t give him wise advice-they fed his idol by advising him to go out and get beautiful young virgins and pick one that pleases Him and make her Queen.
Yet it is amazing to me how God used the King’s idolatry and his insecurity to bring about His purposes..
B. What qualifications were they looking for in the woman who would be the new Queen?
That they would be young beautiful virgins and that they would be taught to sexually please him.
C. What satire do you see in this passage?
I see this King as someone who is very easily influenced by others-very insecure. He banished Vashti, yet I sense a bit of regret. At the same time he is this fearful King who enjoys parading his splendor and power.
David, LOVE THE CHANGES YOU MADE TO THIS! I love the comment box and also the new edit box when I post and need to go back in and edit. What I like about spell check is it also tells me when I need to hyphen something. ;) This is definitely more user friendly! Thanks so much!
3. What have you learned about reading the Bible so it transforms you — is it making a difference? Explain.
I’m learning what a discipline it is—to first pray, that He will teach me. I love what Chris said to Laura–believing He wants to meet me there in His Word. Praying before that my mindset be cleared of my own agenda and also of what I am looking to get from the text—being emptied of myself to hear Him. And then I hear Dee “go slowly”! I have to continually remind myself of these disciplines, my default is so the opposite.
4. Read Esther 2:1-4
A. How did the “wise men” advise the king?
To get rid of Vashti, gather all the virgins and let the King choose a new Queen.
B. What qualifications were they looking for in the woman who would be the new Queen?
Physical beauty, youth, virginity—an unblemished bride
C. What satire do you see in this passage?
I’m never good at this part—the whole thing just icks (I do love the spell check, but I still have to say icks here!)me. But I do find it ironic that this Kind demands an unblemished bride. He sees himself as deserving someone so pure—only to defile her.
5. Read Esther 2:5-11
A. When the Jews were taken captive in Babylon, Cyrus released them to go home. Historians believe the godly Jews went home, but others had become quite comfortable in Persia and stayed, becoming very like the Persians. How many generations had Mordecai’s family lived in Persia? (See verse 5) Three
B. Find evidence in this passage that Mordecai loved Esther.
He took her as his own daughter, and I loved verse 11—that he checked on her every day.
C. Other details in the book help us know Esther hid her faith for a minimum of seven years — and no one even knew that Mordecai was a Jew in all that time. What fears (and what idols?) might have motivated Mordecai to instruct Esther in this way?
He feared the approval of the King—he feared for his life and Esther’s.
4 i laugh when i read this because i hear the adventures of odyssey version in my head…they do a great job at making it sound satirical. what WE know is that what was really happening is that the king was not getting his “needs” met and these guys were to blame. so they come up with this great idea…..he may not find anyone as good as vesti but he could have fun trying….uggg
5. He was 4th generation…I wonder how many of us are 4th gen. here in america and we don’t even know the culture of where we come from. He loved Esther very much, adoption was not all that common, most the time girls were taken into homes and cared for as little more than servants when a relative died. I think M was comfortable in the life he had and did not want to be known as a jew, so he did not want her to be known as a jew. I’m sure there was still a lot of racism going on, isreal was captured then sent back to where they came, not sure they really wanted them around any more.
almost 100 years has gone by since the writing on the wall with Neb. and the JEWISH prophet foretold their loss in battle do to his bad behavior…Im thinking that king X really didn’t want to be reminded of that history and would NEVER want to associate with a jew.
I’ll have to see the Adventures in Odyssey version! How did they handle the “beauty contest?”
Bernard & Esther, Part 1 of 2 its an audio drama for kids but it is handled well. you can download them off the whits end website for $2 each. but with all your grand babys I think the set that is all Bible stories would be a great investment. my kids know a ton of bible stories this way:-) its called “bible eye witness”
http://youtu.be/TEtqYapaIqM
I realize that this is a VERY romanticized version of the story of Esther but I also think they used a lot of symbolism to keep it from being rated X. I love the neclace rep. her virginity….But what i love, even if not accurate, is that the “king” is seen as Jesus here, I know its twisted and that king X was NOT the “saviour” but I love the words to this song and the fact that Jesus DOES see the REAL me!
sorry, i know this kinda feeds into the “wrong” version of Esther but I also think its a great reminder that God sees and loves the REAL us:-) flaws and all!!!
Joni Eareckson Tada explains in her book on suffering with Ken Estes (can’t remember name) that Xerxes was an anti-Christ — long explanation that is very interesting how he was the complete opposite…
A. How did the “wise men” advise the king?
To forget Vashti (I wonder if he loved her at all, perhaps he was sorry) by having a stream of beautiful young girls one after the other, and to choose from them a new queen.
B. What qualifications were they looking for in the woman who would be the new Queen?
One who was “better” than Vashti, a virgin who “pleased” the King.
C. What satire do you see in this passage?
Ahasuerus is like a spoiled child who having broken or thrown away his favorite plaything is indulged by more new playthings than he can handle. His vanity and need for the perfect queen leads to a life of crushing disappointment for so many young girls, his need to feel ‘good enough’ subjects them to a life of insignificance and loneliness.
The good gift God gave us in marriage and sex is corrupted into a obscene feast for the kings appetites
Oh Chris I really like what you wrote.
Ditto.
Yes, me too.
4. Read Esther 2:1-4
A. How did the “wise men” advise the king?
This turns my stomach (reminder: don’t read parts of OT right after eating). They advised him to organize a widespread hunt for beautiful young women to “compete” for the role of queen.
B. What qualifications were they looking for in the woman who would be the new Queen?
beautiful young virgins
C. What satire do you see in this passage?
-those are quite the qualifications for Queen. Even if she primarily was a figurehead (no pun intended), as someone who had access to the king and would have at least indirect influence, she also should have had some brains and character!! (She potentially could kill him). On the other hand, it wouldn’t be hard to beat the quality of advice he received from his advisers. (so, adviser isn’t spelled “advisor” huh ?? :-) )
-By the time they got to the King (after their “training” to know how to please the king), they wouldn’t have been virgins any longer.
-The search was somewhat (!) excessive — and they didn’t even include important “queen characteristics” in the search.
-Either Xerxes himself wasn’t too bright OR he was obligated to follow through on advice by the the so-called “wise men.” Either way, it shows he didn’t have as much power as he thought he had. He was kind of a puppet in the hands of his advisers, and it seems that the search was propelled by the sexual fantasies and desire for power that the advisers had. It feels as if they were proposing the extreme just to see if he would follow through.
5. Read Esther 2:5-11
This part is interesting. I always pictured that Esther was brought in from a distance, but she already lived in the “citadel of Susa.”
A. When the Jews were taken captive in Babylon, Cyrus released them to go home. Historians believe the godly Jews went home, but others had become quite comfortable in Persia and stayed, becoming very like the Persians. How many generations had Mordecai’s family lived in Persia? (See verse 5)
4 ?
B. Find evidence in this passage that Mordecai loved Esther.
He brought her up. He had taken her as his own daughter when her parents died.
I have to stop now because I’m starting to read FASTLY. I probably should get to work!!
:-) Yes — that point about Esther — they had been living there a long time…
Please pray for Brian, he is on a scary downward spiral, and for Bill, Brian’s sisters and me that we would have wisdom and discernment where Brian is concerned.
Thank you girls
I just saw this, Chris. I hope Brian is okay, and I will pray for him.
Oh Chris–just now saw this too–will definitely be praying for you all. Lord, we lift up Brian to You–we ask that You come to him and hold him in Your arms. Heal his wounds. Please give Bill, Chris, and Brian’s sisters wisdom in what to say and do. Be with all of them and protect them Lord, In Your Name
Chris,
Praying for Brian tonight!
Praying also, Chris…please keep us updated and how we can pray…praying now
Will be praying for all of you.
Praying, Chris. Keep us posted.
Praying too.
Renee, Dawn M.S. and Laura Dancer-could you please email me at rebecca@deebrestin.com I have a question for you and I don’t have your email information. Thanks! :-)
yup, sending it now
Renee, I just got Laura Dancer’s but haven’t gotten yours. :( Could you resend? Thanks! :-)
will resend now :)
Renee, Still haven’t gotten it. So sorry. Could you try again? it is rebecca@deebrestin.com Thanks!:-)
just sent again. If you don’t get it in a few minutes, you might want to check your junk mail/spam filter. I changed the subject line in case earlier ones sounded too “spammy!”
Renee, lol! I just checked my spam mail and received all three of them. :-) Thanks so much..I knew you would be able to figure it out. ;)
Rebecca, I am out of town right now and will send my email as soon as I can get access to my email account.
We just dropped our second oldest son off in Atlanta, GA to work in the inner city with Mission Year. As the name implies, he will be in Atlanta for a year, living with and serving in the poorest section of the city.
After prayer and advise from others, I decided not to take the job. It is almost 50 miles from my home (I drive 35 miles now), I would be working alone and my psychologist and I don’t think that isolation is what I need right now. Plus I have to work to do in relation to my co-workers and I can’t do that if I’m not there.
Wow, Dawn MS. Your son is working and living for a year in urban mission. That is huge! I`m adding him and you to my prayer list. How do you feel about this?
We (hubby and I with three small kids at the time) worked in urban ministry in Toronto, Ontario, Canada for a year. It was very eye-opening to say the least. It was probably one of the hardest things I have had to do, but I needed to do it to learn the things that God wanted to teach me about my pride, my fears, and trusting in God. I learned a tremendous amount about myself and about other people that year.I was scared most of the time, but then I was a country girl definitely out of my comfort zone in a dangerous part of the city. But then again, what place is not dangerous on some level?
Diane, I am very excited for him. I saw the neighborhood in which he will be living, it couldn’t be much worse, but I know that God is in charge no matter what. My biggest worry for him is his continuing support. He only had half of it raised and I know that he wants and needs to devote his time to the ministry not trying to raise money.
I appreciate you sharing this, Dawn MS. I’ll pray that God will look after him financially.
5. Read Esther 2:5-11
A. When the Jews were taken captive in Babylon, Cyrus released them to go home. Historians believe the godly Jews went home, but others had become quite comfortable in Persia and stayed, becoming very like the Persians. How many generations had Mordecai’s family lived in Persia? (See verse 5)
Three generations.
B. Find evidence in this passage that Mordecai loved Esther.
He took her when her parents died and she became like his daughter. He paced at the palace to know what she was experiencing when she left him.
C. Other details in the book help us know Esther hid her faith for a minimum of seven years — and no one even knew that Mordecai was a Jew in all that time. What fears (and what idols?) might have motivated Mordecai to instruct Esther in this way?
I think Mordecai worried Esther would be punished severely if it was known that she was Jewish. Maybe he wanted Esther to succeed for recognition? This would be his idol popping in. Kind of reminds me of the stage mother or soccer mother! You know, that hovers at all the performances/games and is SO proud of the child when she succeeds?
If she failed, then be failed as well. He knew they might both be punished. Another idol might be control. He wanted to control the situation for his benefit (as well as the entire Jewish race).
Thank you all for praying for my dear friend Lynne. She made it home from the hospital and is doing much better!
It seems that I need many prayers, all the time. I just returned from a family wedding that my mom was able to also attend. She is very frail. I am struggling with guilt because I am far away from her and it is difficult to help out. My brother is doing his best but he is tired. She has nurses that are coming in to help her right now because of a pressure ulcer that needs to heal. However they are also helping her exercise and bathe as well. It is hard watching your parents get old. My mom is one of the best role models of a Christian I ever had. What a dear sweet soul. I know we get old and eventually die. I just would like to see her enjoying the reading and crossword puzzles she used to do all the time. Thanks for any prayers for the situation.
I’m so sorry Laura this is a hard time I know. I had to watch my dad lose the strength that he always had and not be able to all the stuff he did before. Try not to be so hard on yourself about not being there to help. I don’t know how far away she is, my mom is now a little over an hour away from me and it’s hard to help my sister but I do what I can and call her every other day. I will be praying for your mom, brother and you and you find peace in this.
Oh laura, I am so sorry. I pray you can let the guilt go though–your deep love for your mom is so evident, I know she must feel so blessed by it. Praying for all of you
I think this is one of the hardest times in life — for both of you. May the Lord guide you and comfort you both.
Oh Laura, This season must be so rough..I will pray for you and your mom.
I am sorry, Laura and will pray for you. Glad about your friend.
My heart goes out to you and your family, Laura. Praying for you.
Laura, I’m so sorry about your mom; I went through this also with mom. Praying for you and thankful for your friend.
5. Read Esther 2:5-11
A. How many generations had Mordecai’s family lived in Persia? (See verse 5) Three. Mordecai was the fourth.
B. Find evidence in this passage that Mordecai loved Esther.
Every day he walked back and forth near the courtyard of the harem to find out how Esther was and what was happening to her.
C. Other details in the book help us know Esther hid her faith for a minimum of seven years — and no one even knew that Mordecai was a Jew in all that time. What fears (and what idols?) might have motivated Mordecai to instruct Esther in this way?
He was afraid they might be killed perhaps, or looked down upon. I am thinking comfort and approval.
6. Read Esther 2:12-18
A. In this passage there is a phrase that is used four times. It is “to go into.” Find this same phrase in Genesis 16:2; Ruth 4:13, and 1 Samuel 11:4. What does this tell you?
“to go into” means to sleep with-have sex with.
B. According to verse 14, when would she go to the king, when would she return, and where would she go after her night with the king? What would determine her fate, according to this verse? (This verse is loaded — slow down! Find all you can about a woman’s possible fate.)
In the evening she would go in and in the morning she would return to the second harem and be in the custody of Shaaghaz the Kings eunich. He was in charge of the concubines and she would not again go into the king unless he delighted in her and summoned her.
Oh my..This is horrible. I feel for the women who weren’t chosen! They would go into a harem where they didn’t know anyone. They would be under this mans charge-who knows what liberties he could have with the ones the King didn’t summon. They had to live there forever-banned to a life in a harem-never to marry-never to have children-never free again and apparently they most likely never saw their families again. They are treated like sex slaves and that is all they are good for-inhumane treatment.
C. Why do you think Esther capitulated? What might have been her fears (or her idols)?
She probably didn’t want to be banned to a life in a harem forever like I noted above. Perhaps being the best she could be for the King and winning His favor would give her a life-make her be somebody other than just a sex object. She would have some kind of honor and her children would be heirs to the throne. Her idol perhaps was control, approval, comfort-maybe all would working, yet I don’t blame her to be honest. Living life in that harem under that man’s charge would most likely be horrific.
D. When have you capitulated? Looking back, what were your fears or your idols?
Looking back, when I was first married I was afraid of conflict in our marriage so I capitulated. I was afraid he would leave or reject me so I would always make the first move-always desired resolution and quickly. I think my idol was comfort and control.
So good to really get into Esther’s place and imagine her thoughts and fears
6. Read Esther 2:12-18
A. In this passage there is a phrase that is used four times. It is “to go into.” Find this same phrase in Genesis 16:2; Ruth 4:13, and 1 Samuel 11:4. What does this tell you?
It meant to have sex.
B. According to verse 14, when would she go to the king, when would she return, and where would she go after her night with the king? What would determine her fate, according to this verse? (This verse is loaded — slow down! Find all you can about a woman’s possible fate.)
She would go to the King in the evening for his self-gratification, return in the morning to the 2nd harem in the custody of the eunuch Shashgar. She would be guarded as a concubine. If the King delighted in her, she would be called for again, otherwise she would remain a concubine and never be able to marry. She would spend the rest of her life unloved and confined. Her fate was determined by a sick and selfish King.
I read some say that Esther won favor because of her beauty—but it seems to me it was that God had predestined her to be Queen—so while the King thought he had all the power, ultimately only God determines the outcome.
C. Why do you think Esther capitulated? What might have been her fears (or her idols)?
She feared the disapproval of the King, and maybe of Mordecai as well—she wanted to do what he told her to and please him. She feared her life. I am more and more struck by her age. Imagining that she could be very young, and I think of tweens/teens today and how much guidance, instruction is needed…I “get” more how weak and fearful she must have felt.
D. When have you capitulated? Looking back, what were your fears or your idols?
Most often it is my approval idol at the core—wanting to be loved, fear of rejection.
7. It is also absolutely vital to see that God was with Esther — you see it in the word “hesed” which here in Esther is usually translated “favor.”
A. Find it in Esther 2:9; 2:15, and 2:17.
God allowed Esther to win the favor of the King and his servants. I searched “favor” in Scripture and it seems to point to receiving God’s favor—it is something He gives, He provides. Daniel 1:9 “And God gave Daniel favor and compassion in the sight of the chief of the eunuchs”. Without His blessing upon her, Esther could not have become Queen.
B. What does it mean to you that God was with her? Think of your failings, right now.
I love what Dee said above, “He is with you and me when we fail Him”. I need that. If He is still here, then nothing is “too messed up” and it’s never too late. Regrets melt.
Elizabeth, I do believe you nailed this: “I read some say that Esther won favor because of her beauty—but it seems to me it was that God had predestined her to be Queen—so while the King thought he had all the power, ultimately only God determines the outcome.”
I am sure out of all those women there were others who were just as beautiful, but what you said about the King giving himself too much credit power wise is so true. I think that is the irony-the King thought he had all the power-he thought he was behind it all but it was God-even during the Vashti episode..All this had to happen as Keller said. God seems absent but his hands are all over this. I can’t help but think about the ‘shy lover’ side of Him in this account.
Great point of irony!
I think it was kind of funny when Keller mentioned God being in charge of xerxes getting drunk!
guess i wont answer these Questions (6-7)….you just did it for me:-)
except for D. which is very similar but it would be cheating if i took yours:-)
6.D.I have never been a “go along with things” kind of person so capitulating isn’t really me but I have seen how I have bought into the “what a REAL christian looks like” dogma. I was (and sadly still am at times) more worried about looking the part then being the daughter God wanted me to be….I sure hope im on the track of being a daughter.
Cyndi, your heart of love and concern for others who are hurting shows how much you are truly his daughter, you are on the path for sure!
2. When you read the Bible quickly so that you don’t really connect with God – what heart idols do you think are deceiving you?
Many of you posted about distractions – I find some days I am distracted and my mind wanders to my “to do” list for the day, feeling like I need to get going or I’m not going to get my work done, or to something I’m worrying about.
In light of doing Bible study, I think it can be an idol of approval/affirmation, when I’m searching, searching the Scriptures and want to get the “right answer” and to have a good answer. (Pride in there, too) But I’m missing seeing God! It reminds me of what Jesus said to the Pharisees in a little different context – but it applies to me, He said “You search the Scriptures but you refuse to come to Me”. They just wanted knowledge, but they missed God right in front of them.
3. What have you learned about reading the Bible so it transforms you – is it making a difference? Explain.
I’ve learned to pray first before reading, and to examine myself as to my motive and my heart as I prepare. I ask God to please meet with me in His Word. I’m reading in Genesis right now, and I’m viewing it differently as not a book of “Bible stories” about Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, etc…I try to kind of get into the story, like what were they thinking and feeling and then to look for how God meets them and works in their lives. I am praying to the same God who was the God of Abraham and the God of Jacob – He is unchanging. He can work in my life, too. I am also learning to read slowly.
4A. How did the “wise men” advise the king? This king had a temper problem! He gets angry and Vashti is gone! No wonder Esther was afraid to come before him. When his anger cools he misses Vashti. It may be that he had some emotional attachment to her but I suspect it was mostly like missing a lost possession. The wise men advise him to replace her and suggest a plan for that.
B. What qualifications were they looking for in the woman who would be the new Queen? Beauty and the ability to please the king.
C. What satire do you see in this passage? A queen should be a woman of strong character with the wisdom and authority to reign. This king has reduced the requirement to the best geisha. I find that extremely sad and laughable.
I’ve been thinking a lot on 8 & 9–I can be very “black and white” and am trying to learn to see all sides more before coming to conclusions. There is a lot that disturbs me in this book. I can most easily excuse Esther—she was just so young. She was obeying the only father she ever knew, and she knew him to be a good man. I struggle more with Mordecai—I see his rationalization, but I still believe God will protect those who do what is right. I say that with a copy of the Voice of the Martyrs newsletter on my desk–that’s hard, but I believe their reward is beyond what I can imagine, because God is bigger than my vision. There are many times I can think of in the Bible where laws were not followed–Baby Moses was hidden, Mary and Joseph fleeing Bethlehem at night—I can’t make a nice neat argument. I do not believe God calls us to sin, and He does call us to obey the law unless it contradicts Scripture.
What I DO see in Esther is that God is working out His perfect plan behind the scenes, despite the sins and failures of the people—and THAT brings me great peace. In reading it today I just keep thinking of Job 42:2–”I know that you can do all things; no plan of yours can be thwarted.”
Those are good thoughts, Elizabeth. Rationalization for sinning when we are in a difficult spot (with lots of pressure to sin) abound. I do it and see it done by other Christians all the time. But that doesn’t make it right. However, even when we do sin, it is so good to know that God is still in control.
I especially like these thoughts. “I can’t make a nice neat argument. I do not believe God calls us to sin, and He does call us to obey the law unless it contradicts Scripture. What I DO see in Esther is that God is working out His perfect plan behind the scenes, despite the sins and failures of the people—and THAT brings me great peace. In reading it today I just keep thinking of Job 42:2–”I know that you can do all things; no plan of yours can be thwarted.”
I always appreciate your wisdom Diane, “However, even when we do sin, it is so good to know that God is still in control.” I really needed that reminder today!
You’ve had a busy summer–are you re-settled? I’ve missed hearing more of your thoughts, always glean so much from you, and your gentle way of delivering truth. Any update on your brother?
Thanks for missing me and asking about my summer, Elizabeth.
I am back but not resettled really. I have my son and his family arriving tomorrow to stay for two weeks. This is my son from Nova Scotia with the 3 year old and a one month old. So life will continue to be busy for at least the next two weeks and I don’t know how much I will be able to do the Bible study here.
Yesterday I had hoped to get a lot done on this study but then the Internet was not working properly. I really miss being able to sit down and think through the questions and listen to the sermons. Today I feel a little like a “chicken with its head cut off” trying to get everything ready for their arrival. Having guests is a great motivator to get things done but it is tiring.
Great verse from Job to summarize Esther — and our lives.
Good discussion above –
We know God does not lead us into sin — He can’t because He is holy.
But He can use sinful beings for His purposes.
My son-in-law David and I disagree on the answer to 9– I respect him so much — I am all for smuggling Bibles and hiding Jews and think Rahab is commended because of the faith it took for her to do it. He feels it is always wrong to lie. Yet he says the Brestins have made him a bit looser… :-) I think that’s good!
ok, now I can admit this…I couldn’t answer #9 because I had a flash back to when I was in 8th grade. My older sister was going with Crusades on their first ever trip to Russia, while still closed. They couldn’t say where they were going & couldn’t bring a Bible. So I made her a photo album, and behind ever photo, I hid a Bible verse on an index card–I sure thought I was clever!…but the “black and white” in me…still stirs…
Love love love this story, Elizabeth. You were not going to let your sister go in without the Word of God!
6. Read Esther 2:12-18
A. In this passage there is a phrase that is used four times. It is “to go into.” Find this same phrase in Genesis 16:2; Ruth 4:13, and 1 Samuel 11:4. What does this tell you? – It means to sleep with.
B. According to verse 14, when would she go to the king, when would she return, and where would she go after her night with the king? What would determine her fate, according to this verse? (This verse is loaded — slow down! Find all you can about a woman’s possible fate.) – she would go to the king at night and in the morning return to a different harem and never again see the king unless he called for her by name. This is very sad. The king treats these women like a piece of meat that was too hard to chew. He uses them and then “throws” them away and never thinks of them again for the most part. They are now “marked” among the other women and to other men. The king does not care about any of them he just uses them to satisfy his own desires, never thinking of their reputation among the other people in their provinces. The “discarded” women are branded for life.
C. Why do you think Esther capitulated? What might have been her fears (or her idols)? – I think because Esther did what Hegai knew the king would like and didn’t try to impress him in any way by bringing him more stuff. She was herself instead of trying to flaunt herself. In her mind her purpose was probably different than the other women. Her idols could have been her safety and the safety of her people, fear that God may not protect them.
D. When have you capitulated? Looking back, what were your fears or your idols? – for me I think it was when I gave up trying to make my first husband go to counseling when he really didn’t. I conceded and went thru with the divorce, which now in the long run, was the best thing for me and my kids. My fears and idols were probably scared of making it on my , not finding anyone to love me, failing in front of my kids.
You certainly caught the horror of what was going on, Julie. You too have been through so much and it is wonderful to see God’s redemptive hand in your life.
6. Read Esther 2:12-18
A. The phrase means that the women were to have intercourse with the king.
B. The woman’s fate was decided by whether the king was pleased with her in the morning. In the morning she would go to a second harem, supervised by another eunuch in charge of the concubines. She never went to the king again unless he called for her which he likely never would. She was locked away and forgotten. If she became pregnant I wonder what became of the child. I would not think a harem full of concubines would be a very good place to raise a child. I can see how that child might become her life. She was discarded and forgotten after being so traumatically taken from her life and family. It must have been very bad for these kingdoms to have all of their beautiful young women locked away like this, especially when mortality rates were high in childbirth. What a Selfish Giant! I can’t get over this king. Yet I know that without Jesus I am just as narcissistic and heartless.
Hi anne, in response to “A,” I just wondered how you know that is what it means? I don’t get that at all from the verses I read. In fact when I read the 1 samuel scripture I saw nothing that led menin that direction at all. It was about Samuel meeting messengers and everyone crying. The Genesis and Ruth scriptures both talk about women having babies. Not getting the connection……
Well, it just dawned on me that maybe I should check other versions? Duh. I was using the NIV. will do so this evening :)
Laura, I am sorry for not responding. I saw it late and at a time when I could not investigate. Chris thanks for looking into it.
I think that was a typo, and the correct verse is in 2 Samuel, check that out Laura.
I tried to post that yesterday, when my computer wouldn’t work!
Thx!
Your phrase “what a selfish giant” has me remembering one interesting interpretation of Genesis 6:2 which talks about “giants in the land” in some translations — I think it was Adam Clarke who said those were men of power who abused women, taking as many as they wanted…
gross… there was lots of disgusting behavior described in the OT. All of the OT certainly points to the Savior — and the need for a Savior.
9. I do not think it is wrong to smuggle Bibles or help persecuted people to get out of danger. An authority that commands this is in direct conflict with the command of God. I support that with Peter and Paul continuing to preach the gospel when beaten, imprisoned and commanded not to by those in authority over them. I don’t think Esther and Mordecai were right. They had no reason to lie, other than fear. They did not trust God to protect them and that does not please Him. He proved that He was able in spite of the fact that they lied and I think Esther would have become queen even if everyone knew she was Jewish. He was with them even though they did not do everything just right. That is a huge consolation to me. I have a lot of failings and just plain disobedience out of fear yet I find God faithful to me. Do I receive His best for me in the cases of disobedience? I don’t think so but it does not change His hesed for me.
Just a thought. I wonder if Haman would have been able to get the king to sign his edict if it had been known that Esther was Jewish.
Good point Anne, if Gods plan all along was for Esther to be in that palace harem at that time and become queen, it may not have mattered that Esther was Jewish for His plan for her life to take hold.
B. What does it mean to you that God was with her? Think of your failings, right now. – Oh my failings what do I list. I would have to say my biggest failing right now is my attitude. I just can’t tolerate people who think they are better than others in any way when they are no better than me. They may be smarter than me but that does not give them the right to be rude. For Esther to know that God was with her is evident in many ways. Out of all the young ladies and I’m sure there were plenty, God lifted her out of the crowd for the king to notice her. He protected her from harm and death. She found Gods favor from everyone who came to know her. To know God is with us at all times even if we failed in some way or the other is very comforting to me. It reminds me of the Footprints saying where one there is only one set of footprints God is carrying me. I think this is what he was doing with Esther, He was carrying her in is arms.
8. It is also important to read the Bible according to genre. Esther is a historical book. What you see God’s people doing isn’t necessarily a commendation — it is just a recording of what they did. We cannot endorse polygamy because God’s people practiced it, because God’s didactic teachings clearly opposed polygamy. For example, if you ignore genre, you might come up with the conclusion that what Esther and Mordecai did was right because they were eventually used to rescue God’s people. See if you can refute this from scriptures that are not a recording of history but are didactic (commands from God, teaching Scriptures). –
I’m not sure if this is what you mean but it says “Lord, deliver me from lying lips and a deceitful tongue.” (Psalm 120:2 HCSB); And also The Lord hates six things in fact, seven are detestable to Him: arrogant eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that plots wicked schemes, feet eager to run to evil, a lying witness who gives false testimony, and one who stirs up trouble among brothers. (Proverbs 6:16-19 HCSB) and than there is Truthful lips endure forever, but a lying tongue, only a moment. Lying lips are detestable to the Lord, but faithful people are His delight. (Proverbs 12:19, 22 HCSB)
That’s good Julie.
9. Here is a controversial question — and believers who love the Lord come down on both sides. How do you think God feels about smuggling Bibles or hiding Jews during the holocaust since it involves lying? Is this in the same category as what Mordecai and Esther did? Why or why not? What is your case scripturally? – I think in circumstances like this that it’s ok. Jesus was a Jew and protecting people from being killed because of who they are I don’t think is a bad thing. I don’t think I could just stand a side and watch them be slaughtered. And for smuggling bibles into third world countries, Jesus told us ”Go into all the world and preach the gospel to the whole creation. (Mark 16:15 HCSB)? There are some people who would not believe without seeing the Bible so you would need to smuggle them in so The Word Of God can be heard in all nations. I think this scripture fits for hiding the Jews “Do not trust deceitful words, chanting: This is the temple of the Lord, the temple of the Lord, the temple of the Lord. Instead, if you really change your ways and your actions, if you act justly toward one another, if you no longer oppress the foreigner, the fatherless, and the widow and no longer shed innocent blood in this place or follow other gods, bringing harm on yourselves, I will allow you to live in this place, the land I gave to your ancestors long ago and forever.” (Jeremiah 7:4-7 HCSB)
Router is back up again. Great study!
1. What stands out to you from the above and why?
Love this line: “You will see God as the hero,the One who was with her before she was brave, and after. (This is the beauty of our God.) And this is our beauty!!!
2. When you read the Bible quickly so that you don’t really connect with God — what heart idols do you think are deceiving you?
Comfort is one because I am needing to get on with other things in my day so I am hurrying. I see legalism here also – I think I must do it because it is the right thing to do rather than doing it to be with Him.
3. What have you learned about reading the Bible so it transforms you — is it making a difference? Explain.
I find it helpful to slow down and concentrate. Worship music helps to quiet my soul before I have my quiet time. Also desire to hear from Him and commune with Him.
This is such a good post, Kim — and this so true:
I see legalism here also – I think I must do it because it is the right thing to do rather than doing it to be with Him.
4. Read Esther 2:1-4
A. How did the “wise men” advise the king? Get rid of a woman who the king would miss. Without wisdom from God they are doomed to stupidity.
B. What qualifications were they looking for in the woman who would be the new Queen? Beauty, youth and virginity.
The word “please” has a strong sexual connotation. In Judges 14:3 Samson tells his parents he wants them to get an unbelieving woman for him for his wife for “she pleases me well.”
C. What satire do you see in this passage? The wise men were not too wise. They were looking for things in a wife that pass away. Like the old goat deserved a woman with qualities which he had none of.
7. It is also absolutely vital to see that God was with Esther — you see it in the word “hesed” which here in Esther is usually translated “favor.”
A. Find it in Esther 2:9; 2:15, and 2:17.
Esther 2:9 God gave her favor with Hegai. 2:15 She won the favor of everyone who saw her. 2:17 She won the King’s favor.
B. What does it mean to you that God was with her? Think of your failings, right now.
That He has her covered and under His wings. That He is faithful and that He is the cover-er of the orphan. I also think of how God provided Mordecai for her when her parents died-a covering for her with a man who greatly loved her and cared for her. Then she gets swept up into this horrific, evil, permanently life changing event of the taking of virgins to live a life of a sex slave-yet God was with her and gave her favor among the people there. Even though God knew that she would fail in the future-she was His, and oh to be His! :)
8. It is also important to read the Bible according to genre. Esther is a historical book. What you see God’s people doing isn’t necessarily a commendation — it is just a recording of what they did. We cannot endorse polygamy because God’s people practiced it, because God’s didactic teachings clearly opposed polygamy. For example, if you ignore genre, you might come up with the conclusion that what Esther and Mordecai did was right because they were eventually used to rescue God’s people. See if you can refute this from scriptures that are not a recording of history but are didactic (commands from God, teaching Scriptures).
I think Julie’s verses were applicable to this question in regard to lying. Leviticus 19:11 You shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another.
I think the undercurrent of their lying was that they were scared and rightly so! I would have been..so their idols were operating and here is what God says about that: Exodus 20:3 You shall have no other gods before Me.
Also, instead of capitulating God wants us to trust Him: Isaiah 26:3 “Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee because he trusteth in thee.” Psalm 118:8 “It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.”
9. Here is a controversial question — and believers who love the Lord come down on both sides. How do you think God feels about smuggling Bibles or hiding Jews during the holocaust since it involves lying? Is this in the same category as what Mordecai and Esther did? Why or why not? What is your case scripturally?
Yes, Mordecai was protecting Esther because she was one of the oppressed-yet at the same time I am not totally sure that was his motivation.
I evolved on this issue. I used to think it isn’t right to lie under any circumstance and that we need to trust God-yet when posed with this question in regard to hiding Jews-I couldn’t help but say it was right. Sure it isn’t right to go against the laws and to lie, but now I believe strongly that when the laws go against God’s desires-his Word then it is right to disobey them and to lie to save an oppressed person’s life.
For example, I think it is right to go undercover-to lie in order to get in and physically rescue sex slaves-this could be the same in lying to hide Jews. The scripture to back this is that God hates Oppression and desires for us to correct oppression and seek justice as this is His heart: “I know that the Lord secures justice for the poor and upholds the cause of the needy.”-Psalm 140:12, Isaiah 1:17, “Learn to do good; seek justice, correct oppression; bring justice to the fatherless, plead the widow’s cause.”-ESV
Also the midwives in Egypt lied to Pharoahs servants to protect the Hebrew babies from being killed-this was right. Rahab the Harlot lied to protect the spies. (I don’t want to write a book, but there are examples of those who lied in scripture for righteous reasons-out of a concern for the cause of God.)
I apologize if this is scattered-but I have run out of time this morning! :)
Such good arguments!
Rebecca,
I agree with you. The midwives who protected the Hebrew babies – God was kind to them and gave them children of their own. They feared God more than they feared Pharaoah; they could have been put to death for their actions.
Good stuff, Susan. “They feared God more than they feared Pharaoh.” I think that is the main point of whether or not to lie in order to save others. We often lie because of fear, whether it is because we want others approval, or we lack courage. If we really are more afraid of God than we are of others and we know lying is wrong, then we will not lie unless we are convinced in our heart that God wants us to lie in order to advance a larger cause (i.e. smuggling Bibles, rescuing sex slaves, children in danger from others). This is a difficult issue but the key is fearing God more than others no matter how powerful those others seem.
Totally agree Rebecca–my husband and I discussed this a while last night and he said –there is a Greater Law for us to obey. And he’s big on smuggling Bibles…I hate deceit, but I think God knows our heart and in each of these instances the desire is not to promote man but to honor God.
Elizabeth, oh yes- our heart desires. :-)
Not to rabbit trail, but I was thinking about what Susan said about how the midwives lied because they feared God more than the Pharoah and that they could have been killed-and God blessed them.
I was thinking how God gave Esther favor even though perhaps Mordecai and her lying wasn’t done with a God centered motive-perhaps more of the fear of man motive-yet what is wrong with lying to save your daughter from being taken into a sex slave situation? God was so heart broken over what the King was doing to these women. I guess it boils down to motives-yet God is sovereign even in situations where the motives for lying to spare someone’s life could stem from idolatry.
I am not sure Mordecai’s motives were God centered, yet I see God’s compassionate heart for Mordecai and these women. I see His sovereignty and his rescue of Esther despite the lying. Doesn’t mean not trusting God and lying was right, but I see such mercy and Grace here.
LIKE: “I am not sure Mordecai’s motives were God centered, yet I see God’s compassionate heart for Mordecai and these women. I see His sovereignty and his rescue of Esther despite the lying. Doesn’t mean not trusting God and lying was right, but I see such mercy and Grace here.”
I wonder how the book of Esther would read if God were explicitly mentioned??: e.g., “Mordecai prayed for wisdom, and God…” or “Mordecai relied on his own understanding, and… But God…”
I am just checking in to let you know things have calmed down considerably where Brian is concerned, I thank you for praying. My prayer for him is that he would be transformed by the renewing of his mind, and that he begin to grasp a vision of his identity in Christ.
The tension messed with Bill and me too, we had some communication issues that were distressing surrounding this situation, things are better, but it feels like we have been made aware of something we need to work on.
My computer completely froze up yesterday. I couldn’t return emails for work or post anything here, or anything. Bill had purchased a new computer for me weeks ago, but I have been reluctant to learn something new (it is an Apple).
Well that was the shove I needed, I am on it now!
I worked until 11:30 last night, Bill brought my old computer to me at work and I left it there, so I am still like a fish out of water, all my documents, all my old email history for work and my personal email are not accessible. I feel a bit strange realizing how much I depend on having all of that available to me.
So thankful you have some peace about Brian, Chris. Praying for all the upheaval it brought with you & Bill too–and for your computer woes–I know how frustrating that can be, a curve-ball you really didn’t need ;)
Thanks for update, Chris. Will keep praying!
Thanks for the update…so glad things are better.
4. Read Esther 2:1-4
A. How did the “wise men” advise the king?
King Xerxes “later” got over his fit of anger and remembered Vashti; what she had done and what he had done to her. It seems he is regretting his acting so rashly. However, his attendants have a solution to this – a search for beautiful young virgins in every province of the king’s realm – and to bring these girls into the harem. Then, whichever one most pleases the king, she will become the new queen.
B. What qualifications were they looking for in the woman who would be the new Queen?
Young, beautiful, a virgin. They will be given “beauty treatments” – some translations (KJV and Amplified) refer to this as giving them “their things for purification”. I looked up “purification” in the concordance and the Hebrew word refers to soap for bathing, scrubbing, perfume for the body.
Obviously they were preparing their bodies for their night with the king. The girl who “pleases the king” will be chosen as queen.
C. What satire do you see in this passage?
Back in chapter 1:10-12, when the whole Vashti incident happened, it says that Xerxes was “in high spirits with wine” – a nice way to say he was drunk? Now this passage starts off with saying “Later when the anger of King Xerxes had subsided, he remembered Vashti and what she had done and what he had decreed about her” – is this satire here – I think maybe he was “hung-over” and as the haze faded, he was remembering the whole embarassing incident. I would think he would’ve been embarassed that he actually sent out proclamations stating that every man be ruler over his own household. But now he doesn’t know what to do. Since he made a royal decree that Vashti be banished, he can’t undo it.
Then he turns again to these advisors for help.
5. Read Esther 2:5-11
A. When the Jews were taken captive in Babylon, Cyrus released them to go home. Historians believe the godly Jews went home, but others had become quite comfortable in Persia and stayed, becoming very like the Persians. How many generations had Mordecai’s family lived in Persia? (see verse 5)
I counted four generations: Kish – Shimei – Jair – Mordecai.
B. Find evidence in this passage that Mordecai loved Esther.
Esther (Hadassah) was Mordecai’s cousin, and when her parents died, Mordecai took her as his own daughter and raised her. He saved her from a dire existence as an orphan.
C. Other details in the book help us know Esther hid her faith for a minimum of seven years – and no one even knew that Mordecai was a Jew in all that time. What fears (and what idols?) might have motivated Mordecai to instruct Esther in this way?
I did some reading on the internet about this. It is suggested that Mordecai is a descendant of King Saul, because the book of Esther states that Mordecai was of the tribe of Benjamin and a descendant of Kish, the father of King Saul. Mordecai has Hadassah (a Jewish name) take the name of Esther, which in Persian, means “star” and “hidden”.
Also, getting a little bit ahead, Haman is descended from King Agag, the Amalekite king.
When King Saul attacked the Amalekites, he was told by God to destroy all of them but he spared King Agag. This is perhaps why when Haman finds out that Mordecai is a Jew, he is not satisfied with wanting to kill only Mordecai, but wants all the Jews killed.
So perhaps it is because of this history that Mordecai has been a non-practicing Jew, and instructs Esther to do the same to hide their heritage. Also, I wonder if Mordecai had become prosperous in any way and that he feared losing his reputation, his business, his acceptance among his neighbors? The operating idols could be approval, security, power/control.
One Jewish commentator’s view is that Mordecai instructed Esther to hide her Jewish heritage because of her link to the line of Saul – that if Xerxes had known this he would surely have chosen her as queen, and that Mordecai was hoping that she would not be chosen. (It is noted that when Esther does reveal her royal heritage, Xerxes shows her more respect). This commentator also states that perhaps Mordecai was hoping that, because Xerxes had more than one wife, at some point in the future, Esther would be permitted to subtly leave the palace and return to him if her royal heritage remained a secret.
I find this background fascinating as the showdown between Haman and Mordecai/Esther and Haman and the Jews seems to link back to the “loose ends” that King Saul left behind when he disobeyed God concerning the Amalekites.
5.C. Going back to this question, I see Mordecai in verse 11 pacing back and forth every day near the courtyard of the harem, wanting to know how Esther was and what was happening to her. He loved her like his own daughter, and perhaps she brought security and comfort to him, love and companionship. Perhaps he thought she would help care for him in his old age? He didn’t want her to be taken away from him by the king. Perhaps that is why he forbid Esther to reveal her “nationality and family background” – the background being the linkage to the royal line of Saul, which surely Xerxes would have been thrilled about.
6. Read Esther 2:12-18
A. In this passage there is a phrase that is used four times. It is “to go into.” Find this same phrase in Genesis 16:2; Ruth 4:13, and 1 Samuel 11:4. What does this tell you? Sarah having Abraham go into Hagar, Ruth went into Boaz and conceived, 2 samuel is about David and Bathsheba…Good to see this in slowing down and knowing the HEbrew words to really get the true meaning…So important
B. According to verse 14, when would she go to the king, when would she return, and where would she go after her night with the king? What would determine her fate, according to this verse? (This verse is loaded — slow down! Find all you can about a woman’s possible fate.)Go in the evening, return in the morning, The second harem…Her future was determined by the king delighting in her and calling her by name.
C. Why do you think Esther capitulated? What might have been her fears (or her idols)? Esther I suppose was scared. It was what everyone else in captivity was doing and I suppose she probably felt she had no choice. If she stood up death would be the end probably. However, I wonder if that would have been better than being at the hands of sinful men…
D. When have you capitulated? Looking back, what were your fears or your idols? I was in a situation kinda like this as far as feeling scared if I did not follow through I would be detested. Yet instead I fell to the pressure and did not say no. After that event I hated the person and what happened. I could have said no but felt overpowered and did not. It was probably fear. I was young, wanted to be favored, in a bad situation where no one could come in and save me from it. I wanted to be liked and compromised what I said I would not.
Yet there are so many examples of capitulating that i hate to count! I am so thankful for His mercy and grace and forgiveness.
Just a thought, wonder what happened to those who never had to go into the king, after he chose Esther did he let the other girls left go? Surely she was not last to go in? Or did he continue to add to his harem? Seems the mood of the king was good after Esther was chosen so I hope he let them go.
Wow good thought on what happened to the rest of the girls after Esther.
Good question on what happened to ther other girls –
What do you glean from Esther 2:14?
7. It is also absolutely vital to see that God was with Esther — you see it in the word “hesed” which here in Esther is usually translated “favor.”
A. Find it in Esther 2:9; 2:15, and 2:17. This is great to see and know He was there with her.
B. What does it mean to you that God was with her? Think of your failings, right now. It means alot, I know He was with me too yet it is hard to understand why He does not jump in and intervene in things like this. Where it would have been easier for me to say no and stand up than Esther. Trafficking, etc it is so hard to see it happen and God not stop it. But to know He is with you is so important. He has a bigger plan.
Dawn M.S., if you get this could you please email me at: rebecca@deebrestin.com. Thanks so much!! :-)
5. Read Esther 2:5-11 A. When the Jews were taken captive in Babylon, Cyrus released them to go home. Historians believe the godly Jews went home, but others had become quite comfortable in Persia and stayed, becoming very like the Persians. How many generations had Mordecai’s family lived in Persia? (See verse 5) 3
B. Find evidence in this passage that Mordecai loved Esther. He paced the grounds to find out if she was okay.
C. Other details in the book help us know Esther hid her faith for a minimum of seven years — and no one even knew that Mordecai was a Jew in all that time. What fears (and what idols?) might have motivated Mordecai to instruct Esther in this way? He had already lost her parents and probably felt the burden to keep her safe. Maybe control issues.
6. Read Esther 2:12-18
A. In this passage there is a phrase that is used four times. It is “to go into.” Find this same phrase in Genesis 16:2; Ruth 4:13, and 1 Samuel 11:4. What does this tell you? It means to have sexual relations.
B. According to verse 14, when would she go to the king, when would she return, and where would she go after her night with the king? What would determine her fate, according to this verse? (This verse is loaded — slow down! Find all you can about a woman’s possible fate.) In the morning she returned to the second house of the women, to the custody of Shaashgaz, the king’s eunuch who kept the concubines. She would not go in to the king again unless the king delighted in her and called for her by name. This is a very sick society.
C. Why do you think Esther capitulated? What might have been her fears (or her idols)? I would guess she did these things out of fear for her life, obedience to Mordecai and really no other alternative but death. So much depends on what we don’t know. She could have an idol operating of affirmation. It is possible she knew she was beautiful and liked feeling powerful.
I’ve been thinking about the right/wrong of lying to hide Jews/smuggle Bibles etc. all week. My response is something that I’ve always resisted saying (and still don’t believe 99.999% of the time!): “What is right for one person may not be right for another!” (Ugh!)
I remember a long time ago (youth/young adulthood)reading about Bible smuggling and wondering how I would/could smuggle Bibles and not lie. I didn’t think that smuggling Bibles might be wrong (although I know it involves breaking laws…speaking of breaking laws, people don’t seem to get all bent out of shape about speeding).
I just assumed that if I were to smuggle Bibles, I would do it without lying or accept the consequences of lying. I have read about Bible smugglers who had the same concern, and God worked in the situation so that they were not asked, vehicles weren’t examined, and they didn’t have to lie. I don’t remember hearing stories of Bible smugglers who explicitly lied, although maybe that part wasn’t written in books!
Frequently, we assume that we would have to lie (or do whatever “wrong” behavior) because we can’t see another way. But that doesn’t mean that God can’t open another avenue so that we don’t have to violate His commands. I used to read missionary biographies for entertainment; if I remember right, God’s hand was evident in many situations when people sought Him and trusted Him. Many missionaries asked God to open doors, and He did — but the reports were of people trusting Him, not taking things into their own hands.
So, as I’m writing this, I’m thinking “no, it’s not right to lie” (at least explicitly; haven’t thought about the implicit lies of sneakiness yet); however, just as in other situations, God is in control; He redeems and works despite our sins and mistakes. I suppose we could argue that it was “right” for the King and his advisers to get drunk and do a bunch of the bad stuff because that led to Esther becoming queen and saving her people. I’m not quite ready to make wrong “right” under certain conditions, especially not when people haven’t even asked God to intervene; I’ve heard too many things justified as “right” just so that people don’t get “caught.” i.e., I can’t see a way out of a situation other than lying so lying becomes right.
Last night I was wondering about alternatives to Bible smuggling and lying about it. This seems far-fetched today, but in some eras, people have communicated a whole lot of the Bible by memorizing it and then writing it when they didn’t have access to the written Word.
I may be as naive in this as I am in other areas, but I would have a hard time saying that it would be okay for me to intentionally lie so that I could protect myself to do God’s work. In the situation, I might lie, but I don’t think I could plan ahead to do it. Plus, I’ve known others that couldn’t — and God made the situation so that they didn’t have to. They didn’t “have to” lie because God blinded the eyes of the people they would have lied to. At the moment, I believe that Bible smuggling is fine (but now I just might question that, too), but lying about it usually is wrong. God would have to make it pretty clear if He was leading me to lie.
Regarding my answer that some action might be right for some people and wrong for others: I’ve seen the stress associated with lying, sneakiness, etc that is required for some jobs. It’s possible for people to get so caught up in roles they have to assume for work (e.g., going undercover and sometimes even acting) that their whole lives become a lie. If someone is totally dependent on God and His leading, I could “buy” that God might lead him/her to lie; but it seems just as likely that God would “create a way of escape.” God must give special grace and protection to people he calls into some positions.
Now I think I’m starting to analyze from a research/statistical perspective (scary), but it just dawned on me that God’s blessings after a lie may not be a confirmation that the lie was okay. Instead, it could be confirmation of God’s grace. Who knows what great things God would do if we trusted Him fully? I don’t know; I’m still having a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that lying is ok, even though I’d do it because I’m often CHICKEN rather than trusting Him. Do I only obey His commands when it’s obvious I’ll be “safe?” Or do I trust Him that in Him I am safe, despite the earthly consequences?
Too long… I’m torn.
I enjoyed reading your thoughts Renee, especially about God provisions for the missionaries.
This question
“Who knows what great things God would do if we trusted Him fully? ”
Reminded me of this quote;
“The world has yet to see what God can do with and for and through and in and by the man who is fully and wholly consecrated to Him. I will try my utmost to be that man. -D.L. Moody”
Love your thoughts, Renee, and your D.L. Moody quote, Chris.
“Who knows what great things God would do if we trusted Him fully?” Amen. Who knows what great things God could do THROUGH US if we trusted Him fully?
Wow very good, and thought provoking for me.
You are certainly thinking.
I find peace in knowing He looks on the heart. He knew the midwives motive, Rahab’s motives — the fact that it says He was pleased with them tells me He saw their heart motive was good — they actually had to choose a lesser evil.
Those are my thoughts, dear thoughtful Renee.
Thanks, Dee. That helps me think more clearly. Only have sporadic web access on cell now…
Oh my, I answered #5 before, but didn’t read the first part carefully (so much for S L O W L Y): “When the Jews were taken captive in Babylon, Cyrus released them to go home. Historians believe the godly Jews went home, but others had become quite comfortable in Persia and stayed, becoming very like the Persians.”
I focused on counting the generations, but missed the point (and this was even when I commented on Esther already living there)!!! Mordecai and Esther were living the consequences of earlier generations not seeking God. There is a strong possibility that they (as individuals) wouldn’t have been in this mess in the first place if their great grandparents had been more concerned about seeking God than enjoying Persian comforts.
Wow! This has huge implications for our behavior today and how that will impact future generations. But I’m still pondering what those implications are.
B. According to verse 14, when would she go to the king, when would she return, and where would she go after her night with the king? What would determine her fate, according to this verse? (This verse is loaded — slow down! Find all you can about a woman’s possible fate.)
She would go in the evening, return in the morning, and then go to Shassahgaz for “cleansing.” or so it seems.
Her fate was determined if she pleased the king. She could then see him again. He would have to call her by name.
Good careful reading.
A. When the Jews were taken captive in Babylon, Cyrus released them to go home. Historians believe the godly Jews went home, but others had become quite comfortable in Persia and stayed, becoming very like the Persians. How many generations had Mordecai’s family lived in Persia? (See verse 5)
B. Find evidence in this passage that Mordecai loved Esther.
He took her as his own daughter & walked daily by the court to see how she was fairing
C. Other details in the book help us know Esther hid her faith for a minimum of seven years — and no one even knew that Mordecai was a Jew in all that time. What fears (and what idols?) might have motivated Mordecai to instruct Esther in this way?
Perhaps power? Mordecai may have feared that having his ethnicity revealed would lead to a loss of status? I wonder too if having Esther in the palace might have fed a power idol, he was now the King’s brother-in-law.
6. Read Esther 2:12-18
A. In this passage there is a phrase that is used four times. It is “to go into.” Find this same phrase in Genesis 16:2; Ruth 4:13, and 1 Samuel 11:4. What does this tell you?
It is hard to put delicately but the going “into” was literal & not figurative!
Dee was 1 Samuel 11:4 a typo? I think you meant 2 Samuel 11:4?
10. Share your notes on the message.
These are very brief notes on my highlights from Keller’s sermon “The Silent Sovereignty of God”. As I continue to pray for some that have obviously sold themselves to the world’s system, these words give me hope, indeed assurance that God is still at work, even at work through my prayers.
Don’t judge by appearances. God is at work in ordinary ways. We think he is not there but he is. God silence is not absence.
Are we guilty? Selling our souls for one night with the king? Esther got off to a horrible start. By the end she is a braveheart – God grows her and turns her into something great. No matter how many mistakes you have made, you can’t write yourself off.
Message of the Bible is God persistently and continuously gives his grace to people who don’t ask for it, don’t deserve it and don’t fully appreciate it after they get it.
Three things you need to be free from the world’s concubinage:
1. A real definition of beauty
Not self-obsessed; Jesus was beautiful beyond bearing, he had the infinite glory yet he gave it all up for us. On the cross he became cosmically unsightly.
Real beauty is self-sacrifice.
2. A new experience of my beauty to Him
How dare Jesus Christ use such an intimate metaphor? His heart bursts at the sight of us. To the degree that you know that is true of you, in his eyes, will you be free from the world telling you what you have got to have.
3. Suffering purifies you –
“When through fiery trials thy pathway shall lie … the flame shall not hurt thee, I only design thy dross to consume and thy gold to refine”
Once you are assured of God’s love, really assured of it, when you go through troubles and suffering, it purifies you. It gets rid of the pride, foolishness, the fear. Suffering is God’s beauty treatment. You become a diamond.
Esther’s banquet is nothing compared to the wedding feast of the Lamb, which will be the climax of history. We will be so beautiful because of what he has done for us. If you know that you can live lives of greatness now.
Hi girls, just letting you know I am around, reading your responses, but not really able to respond. Having a bit of a rough week, and today my 3 year seems to have a tummy virus.
Praying your little guy gets better soon.
Thank you. He’s still sick today, looking pretty sad. :(
praying too Krista, glad you could let us know to pray
This 2nd Keller message is AWESOME! I am in the middle but I just have to say it is like being hungry and only then discovering what food is.
Thanks for the recommendation. I’ll try to get to it asap.
That’s a great endorsement, Anne!
C. Why do you think Esther capitulated? What might have been her fears (or her idols)?
I think her fear was death. She could also have been afraid of what Mordecai would think; after all the years of his taking care of her she should do what he says. She might have not wanted to disappoint him. Maybe she wanted the attention also.
D. When have you capitulated? Looking back, what were your fears or your idols?
Well, these have been many times during my life I have done things I really shouldn’t have done for different reasons. A very sad one when I was 18. It happened because I was a coward. I was too afraid to make the right choice. I worried about what others would think. It was all about me :(
I have also done things to fit in with others. Again, how would it look to others?
B. What does it mean to you that God was with her? Think of your failings, right now.
God was watching and making sure everything came out the way it should. I sure hope I have the support of the Lord in my life! I won’t be able to solve problems if i don’t. Ther are several situations in my life that seem hopeless right now. I need to keep my sites on God. In these situations He is all I have.
Laura, you have been so faithful to turn to Him with these things that seem hopeless. He delights in you. I see Him strengthening you through all these trials, refining your beauty
I thought I would mention that I have been reading a book called “Sarah – Women of Genesis.” I found it as a give away at my school library believe it or not! It has been a very good read and shown a perspective of how the women related to each other. It is written by Orson Scott Card and is part of a series.
I was only able to take notes until about half way through for I became overwhelmed, and very tired, but this morning I determined to meditate in my quiet time. My understanding of the concept is so partial but He led me by the hand. I thought I would have trouble focusing but I did not because I was so overwhelmed with His glory. I started with the attribute of supremacy in Nehemiah and Job and ended up in Psalm 139 for He led me there.
I’m looking forward to it Anne–sounds so good
my church’s worship blog posts the songs for worship before Sunday so we can preprare–this is one of tomorrow’s, a favorite–it’s meeting me today: http://indeliblegrace.bandcamp.com/track/jesus-i-come-live-feat-greg-thompson
9. Here is a controversial question — and believers who love the Lord come down on both sides. How do you think God feels about smuggling Bibles or hiding Jews during the holocaust since it involves lying? Is this in the same category as what Mordecai and Esther did? Why or why not? What is your case scripturally?
Well, God wouldn’t want us to break the law; to sin. It makes him sad. He does want us to spread His word though. Lying by smuggling Bibles is breaking the law. Lying is a sin. So, we need to face the music if we want to spread the word of God. It means we may have to put ourselves in danger if we try to deliver Bibles without hiding them. It is a risk. However I don’t think we should hide or lie.
In the case of the Jews, it is more difficult because we are talking about human life. However, if God prevails, and we have faith that He will, then just like how he saved the Israelites over and over again, He would save us as well. He would put the right circumstances in place for good to come of awful situations. It is difficult. Xerxes denied vashti, he got drunk, etc. These are, as Keller says, ordinary things where God is still in control.
I’m here…reading your comments…but kinda falling behind as it’s been a very busy week and even busier week-end. Love and prayers going out to you all tho!
Joyce, is your daughter visiting now? Can’t remember when you said she is coming.
I just finished with the sermon again. I am going to order the series on cd because I need to be able to move back and forth through it more easily. At the risk of being melodramatic I must say that my heart is beginning to burn with this. Dee, I hope we can go slow. BSF begins on the 10th and I would not even go except that I must be there for a friend who goes.
Something that really stands out to me is how emotion ties into formative reading and Jonathan Edward’s experience. Emotion has gotten such a bad reputation in conservative Christianity. I would not be surprised if that dryness does not push people away from the church. I wonder if that may be what is so refreshing about Blue Like Jazz.
GOOD OBSERVATIONS, ANNE. YES, I THINK PEOPLE ARE LONGING FOR INTIMACY — HOW CAN YOU HAVE THAT WITHOUT EMOTION?
11. What is your take-a-way and why?
I found the discussion very interesting about whether or not it was OK to lie under certain circumstances (i.e. smuggling Bibles). I find it helpful to think about how we would react if forced to make a tough decision. Often I think we just don’t trust God enough to blind the eyes of the evil doers but also “We ought to obey God rather than man” so, if the world outlaws something that God wants us to do, then we ought to do illegal things that God calls us to do.
When I was in university, a group of us decided to put a float in the July 1st (Canada Day) Parade. Some wanted to pass out Christian pamphlets even though city hall had outlawed it, but some of us felt we should not. I argued that we shouldn’t but now I am not sure I would feel the same way.
Ultimately God is always in control and we are fallible. I can see both sides of the issue. It’s a tough choice to make.
INTERESTING THAT THE CITY HALL OUTLAWED IT –
SEEMS WE ARE LOSING OUR FREEDOMS HERE IN THE STATES — DO YOU FEEL THAT WAY IN CANADA?
Yes, it does seem that we are losing some of our freedoms, especially in the area about freedom to speak out when we disagree with things like not allowing homosexuals to teach in our Christian universities, and disagreeing with abortion. We are publicly ridiculed for such “intolerant” views.